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Beerus, Whis, and Rigor Power Comparison by MalikStudios Beerus, Whis, and Rigor Power Comparison by MalikStudios
This question CONSTANTLY comes up: "Who is stronger, Bills or Rigor?" "Who would win, Whis or Rigor?" and so on and so on...

Based on the power levels MightyOozaru and I came up with, these are the finalized power levels of each of these characters, to set the record straight. The levels for Rigor are for when he first arrives on Earth, and in his physical prime (no power shock).

Beerus and Whis are (c) Akira Toriyama
Rigor is (c) me
Add a Comment:
 
:iconyoshicrusader:
YoshiCrusader Featured By Owner Jun 8, 2014  Hobbyist Writer
I think when the God's said that regular Ki doesn't work on them, they meant energy attacks. Physical attacks still hurt them, as seen when Vegeta got mad and made Bills bleed from a physical attack (after Bulma got slapped).
Reply
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2014
Vegeta was tapping into his god ki when that happened so it's different. Though you are correct, physical hits, whether they are from gods or otherwise could absolutely hurt him. But using Vegeta as an example isn't a good move as he was tapping into God Ki when it happened.
Reply
:iconyoshicrusader:
YoshiCrusader Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2014  Hobbyist Writer
So character can just generate God Ki when they're angry/desperate enough?
Reply
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2014
Idk. Apparently it depends.
Reply
:iconmegashadowmew:
megashadowmew Featured By Owner Jun 3, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I'm not going to lie... Rigor is screaming Gary-Stu based on this scale ^^;
Reply
:iconmalikstudios:
MalikStudios Featured By Owner Jun 4, 2014  Professional General Artist
Wow that word gets tossed around a lot.

Just because someone is powerful doesn't make them a Stu. If such is the case, then in the actual canon Beerus and Whis are both Stus. Almost all the important DB characters (both villains and good guys) have at one time or another shared traits that would cause them to be labeled a MS/GS.

But when you widen it you do end up making everybody a Sue. Take that test with Goku. Take it with Batman. They all come up as dangerously Mary Sue. That's because the test misses the point that the definition is conditional. A character's attributes alone don't make a Mary Sue. A character's attributes in relation to the rest of the story is what matters. A character could be the last of his kind, loved by all, and the most powerful being on Earth but still wouldn't be a Mary Sue if their existence doesn't come at the expense of other characters or the story. (Interestingly, in Goku's case it does come at the expense of other characters but most people don't call him a Mary Sue).

Besides, lets say you widen the definition and start catching more characters in the net. Well, some of those characters you catch may not be so bad, right? After all, whether he fits the definition or not, Goku isn't a bad character. He doesn't hurt Dragon Ball or not fit properly, does he? So what's the point then? Just to be able to call someone a Mary Sue even though they don't do any harm? At that point it stops being a criticism and just becomes a descriptor.

It always is a case of attributes + scenario + effect on the story = X. In most anime/manga a main character, by attributes alone, can almost always be considered a mary sue. They often are regarded as the last/only hope, they tend to be the most powerful, they are capable of learning techniques/abilities that no one else could, they have abilities/techniques/attributes that make them wholly unique from the others, they are often the deciding factor in the most important battles, they rarely if ever die or cannot be killed, etc etc etc. Guys like Goku, Alucard, Ichigo, Naruto, Sasuke, etc etc all fit these attributes. But going by the scenarios those particular characters are in and their effects on the story, the picture becomes more clear.
Reply
:iconmegashadowmew:
megashadowmew Featured By Owner Jun 4, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
You make a fine point

I see Goku as a bit of a gary stu

But, what you have said makes sense. And that "equation" is actually pretty accurate

I'm sorry if I upset you
I suppose you hear the same thing a lot, don't you? :(
Reply
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2014
If Goku was a Gary Stu he wouldn't have died at all in the series and would be incredibly smart.

He has died twice and is a moron when it comes to things that do not include fighting. A Gary Stu would be perfect in all things.

And considering that Rigor is an antagonist in this story? He isn't going to be top dog for long.
Reply
:iconmegashadowmew:
megashadowmew Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
a character does not necessarily have to be perfect in every possible way to be considered a Gary-Stu
they just have to be perfect at what they do. 

Goku isn't a full blown Gary-Stu by any means
that would probably Broly lol

True enough
Reply
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2014
Broly isn't a full blown Gary Stu either. He is virtually mindless, died, and is outclassed by SSJ2 and up.
Reply
:iconmegashadowmew:
megashadowmew Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
true
a mindless psychopath

however, if he were alive long enough, he would surpass everyone.
I believe it was said his power constantly rises
Reply
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner May 31, 2014
So in New age, Bills and Whis are vastly weaker than their canon counterparts. Good to know!
Reply
:iconmalikstudios:
MalikStudios Featured By Owner May 31, 2014  Professional General Artist
Akira Totiyama's rankings (SSJ God is a 6, Beerus is a 10, and Whis is a 15) were formulated and stated for when Goku first achieved Super Saiyan God. In my estimations, based on what Beerus said about Goku's power during their first sparring match ("With the power you have now, I don't think you could have beaten Freeza), Goku's base level at that time was somewhere around 90 million. In this regard, my numbers for Beerus and Whis (though inaccurate in the above image) are closer to the accurate numbers in a power scale. Also, the above numbers were formulated by me BEFORE Toriyama-sensei introduced those rankings. Going by the rankings, and Goku's estimated power at the time, the following numbers would be more accurate:

SSJ God Son Goku (Pre-GT/DBNA): 45 Trillion
Beerus                                         : Between 75-80 Trillion
Whis                                            : Between 112-120 Trillion

Using the small numbers scale, this would be the power scale by comparison:

Rigor base form (DBNA-era) : 2
SSJ God Goku (Pre-GT/DBNA): 6
Beerus                                 : 10
Whis                                    : 15
SSJ5 Rigor (DBNA-era)         : 27
Reply
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner May 31, 2014
The problem with that is the gods are also well above SSJ4 Gogeta. Bills is entitled to his opinion, but has shown he cannot sense normal ki, just god ki. He even said "the thing you guys called ki doesn't work on gods".

Then there is the uncut version of battle of the gods that will be released soon. It has a scene where Goku states that even if Vegeta and him fused, he doubted they would stand a ghost of a chance against Bills. And that was when he did not know Bills full power, a guy who was casually holding back.

This, combined with the statement by Whis that Bills can whip out their Solar System in an instant if he wanted to? Would put him well above Rigor. As neither Rigor, or SSJ4 Gogeta have the feats to show they could do anywhere near the same.

Another argument to consider: www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZXGeP… (it's only 2:18 long)

Now if you want to put Rigor above them in your story then cool, but he needs to have more feats to really make him above the canon gods. Just being slightly better than a SSJ4 Gogeta isn't really going to cut it against Bills, let alone against Whis. I'd even put SSG Goku above him atm. Or maybe on par.

Fun fact from Dragonball Online: Apparently, according to DBO lore, Goku, when nearing the end of his life due to age, wanted to have one last friendly fight with Vegeta to settle their rivalry on who was stronger. They left the planet to duke it out so that they wouldn't harm the planet. A good thing to because astronomers from Earth were detecting multiple Supernovas going off as a result of their fight. They were never heard of from then on.

Doesn't have much to do with my argument, just thought I'd mention it is all :).
Reply
:iconmalikstudios:
MalikStudios Featured By Owner May 31, 2014  Professional General Artist
I am aware of the scene where Goku and Vegeta state fusion isn't an option (I own the uncut Japanese version, and friend kindly translate captioned it for me). Again, we are talking about pre-GT Goku and Vegeta. They are considerably more powerful in DBNA than they were almost 20 years prior, and even with SSJ4, they are both immeasurably outclassed by Beerus and Whis (both rank less than 1 in terms of the small numbers scale used to measure the powers). To be quite honest, unless a movie depicting SSJ4 Gogeta vs Beerus happens, or unless it is officially stated, there is no evidence to support the claim that Beerus immeasurably trumps him. Regular chi may not be the same as Godly chi, but that's no reason to dismiss that a single mortal being might some day have the power to challenge Beerus. And SSJ4 Gogeta isn't your average mortal being.

Beerus and Whis also talk in the end of the movie about Goku's latent strength and how he and Vegeta may soon become fearsome foes. Rigor is genetically different from both, and far more powerful than either years down the line.

I am also aware of that DBO event of Goku and Vegeta leaving Earth for their final fight. I read about it last year, and it gave me ideas :)
Reply
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner May 31, 2014
Thing is, when Bills and Whis stated they could be fearsome foes, they were talking about their status as SSG's. Gogeta isn't your average mortal being, but neither is Goku now that he is a SSG or Vegeta if he ever becomes a SSG.

And Rigor might be genetically different, but he still doesn't have SSG unlocked and is is more or less the most powerful transformation at this time.

The reason why Bills and Whis would be above SSJ4 Gogeta is due to the two former beings being capable of wiping out a Solar System(going by statements made by Whiss that is). SSJ4 Gogeta doesn't have any performances that put him on that level.

So unless you are saying that in DBNA. SSJ4 Gogeta and Rigor can bust a Solar system..I do not see either of them as being above Bills, Whis, or even SSG Goku. If, in your story, Rigor and SSJ4 Gogeta CAN in fact destroy a Solar system then cool, but that would mean that SSJ4 Gogeta in your story is more powerful than his canon counterpart.
Reply
:iconmalikstudios:
MalikStudios Featured By Owner May 31, 2014  Professional General Artist
Well who's to say canon Gogeta isn't that powerful? He never really DID anything in GT, he was goofing off the whole time. And if I'm not wrong, I think Omega Shenron stated that he could annihilate the solar system (he was destroying Earth simply by being alive). Hell, even Cell (dubious though it may be) claimed that even he could wipe out the Solar System with his chi.

And though it does not appear in the current version, Rigor once stated (again, dubious, as it may have been boasting, I can't remember) that his Final Revenge Cannon had the power to annihilate a portion of the galaxy if he were to unleash it completely. It says this in my wikia, but I no longer have the original dialogue, so I can't say for sure. I probably would retcon this statement to a Solar System, or at least several planets in our solar system.

And you are correct. In DBNA, SSJ God IS still the most powerful power-up (boasting a 500,000x boost). However, as I stated, some retcons took place (SSJ God power fades after time, it does not stay with the user). SSJ5 may have a slightly lower boost, but it is still the 2nd most powerful, and Rigor is certainly a different being in terms of Saiyans. He's a mythical being. A Chosen One, so to speak. He bears the mantle of being Rage Incarnate, a being whose singular power exceeds all other mortal beings. And in DBNA, he's the most powerful natural born mortal. In all the DB Universe, at least in my version, he's the only mortal without God Status who can challenge the Gods.

Again, the numbers I shared are of my own opinion. Other people have their opinion, and are entitled to it. Going by the numbers, without SSJ5 Rigor (and by extension Goku and Vegeta) are wholly incapable of fighting either Beerus or Whis. SSJ5 is the most powerful non-god power-up in this particular Universe. And going simply by equations and numbers, SSJ5 Rigor is stronger than Beerus or Whis.
Reply
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner May 31, 2014
Feats and even lack of statements say he isn't at that level I'm afraid.

Omega Shenron was speaking on entropy level of destruction, not pure destruction.

If ssj4 Gogeta is stronger than what he was in GT, then that's fine. Makes sense really considering Vegeta trains a lot and thus would make the fusion stronger. But as he is in GT? He doesn't stack up to Bills or Whis.

On that note, will SSG be making an appearance in your story?
Reply
:iconmalikstudios:
MalikStudios Featured By Owner May 31, 2014  Professional General Artist
Son Goku and Vegeta (and by extension Gogeta) ARE stronger than they were in GT (roughly twice, if not three times as strong). I don't believe Gogeta GT era could beat Whis. He could maybe throw down with Beerus, but I think Whis is still out of his league. In small numbers scale, I don't even think Omega Shenron would be able to beat SSJ God (z-era) Goku, as I rank him at about a 3 or 4 in comparison to SSJ God Goku's 6.

I have no plans for SSJ God to appear. Not to say it won't change in the future, but as of now, no
Reply
(3 Replies)
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner May 31, 2014
Well, I use the term "canon" for SSJ4 Gogeta loosely considering GT isn't canon as AT wasn't a writer for the story and DBO ignores it.
Reply
:icons0ng0han:
S0NG0HAN Featured By Owner May 22, 2014  Student Digital Artist
Whis isn't even the strongest god, so Rigor SSJ5 Max Power+Hidden Potential and Anger power would still get stomped by future gods that are 9000x stronger than Whis.
Reply
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner May 31, 2014
No other "gods" have ever been mentioned in canon as of yet. So yes, Whis is the strongest god. If you are going to try and use canon, make sure that it is actually canon and not fanfiction.
Reply
:icondoctormatrix123:
doctormatrix123 Featured By Owner Jun 3, 2014
Perfect Cell can destroy a Solar System.

abear77.wordpress.com/2013/03/…
Reply
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2014
Like I said, Cell's claim is debatable. Bills can absolutely bust a Solar system, hell, by the time DBO arrives, Goku and Vegeta were causing stars to crap out just by fighting. But Cell? It is a little too early for that and none of his feats or previous feats really support his claim.
Reply
:iconblazicken:
Blazicken Featured By Owner Aug 21, 2014
Come on man, Vegeta could destroy a planet easily when he was at a power-lever of only 18000,
How hard is it immagine that super perfect cell's claim of being able to whipe out a galaxy with an estimated power-level of 500 000 000 may hold some ground? 
Given that his powers are dwarfed by SSJ3, let alone SSJ4...
Reply
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner Aug 22, 2014
He claimed to bust a Solar System, not a galaxy. And busting a planet is so vastly below even busting a star, let alone a Solar system. A galaxy is something so far above anything in the canon Dragonball continuity it isn't even funny. TOEI continuity is really the only time there are galaxy busters.

Vegeta never casually busted a panet. Arla was a filler only scene. He claimed he could blow up the earth and was putting his all in his Galack Gun. That isn't casual. At best? At the very best SP Cell-SSJ2 level beings are Star busters. Not casual by any means, but if they gave it there all I could see it. Anyone else that is stronger than that have an easier time busting a star but are far from being SS busters. The only SS busters in main continuity are SSG Goku, Bills and Whis. That's it.
Reply
:icongamingrealitytech:
Gamingrealitytech Featured By Owner Jul 27, 2014  Student Digital Artist
1) DBO is not canon.
2) Toriyama was involved in minor subjects but so was he in GT, does it make GT canon? Battle of Gods wipes GT/DBO from existence in terms of canon.
Reply
:iconkareemmohammad:
KareemMohammad Featured By Owner Aug 20, 2014
DBO is canon......
Reply
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner Aug 6, 2014
DBO is indeed canon yes. As I already explained, AT was involved heavily with the project. Having spent 5 years working on the new characters, the plot, and the lore for the game. That makes it canon whether you like it or not.

BOG does not wipe DBO from canon at all. How you could possibly figure that is beyond me. DBO takes place years in the future, and nothing in BoG contradicts anything from DBO or vice versa. The only thing BoG wipes out is GT.
Reply
:icongamingrealitytech:
Gamingrealitytech Featured By Owner Aug 6, 2014  Student Digital Artist
No it isn't canon, lol....
Reply
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner Aug 6, 2014
So you're just going to ignore the fact that:
-AT worked on the new characters, including the majin race and yadrats
-AT worked on the main plot of the story
-At worked on the lore of the story.

And say it's non-canon because...you say so? Yea that's a fantastic argument alright.
Reply
:icongamingrealitytech:
Gamingrealitytech Featured By Owner Jul 27, 2014  Student Digital Artist
Remember that Nappa was a PLANET-BUSTER and Cell is like is like is more than 5 billion times stronger than him. 
Cell - SOLAR SYSTEM BUSTER
Kid Buu - GALAXY BUSTER
SSJ3 Goku - Multi-Galaxy Buster
Bills -Multi-Galaxy buster with 0.001% pwoe
Reply
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner Aug 6, 2014
Nappa was never a planet buster. Ever. Not once did he bust a planet, only a city.

Cell has no feats of being anywhere near SS busting strength. Star busting I can buy. But not SS busting. None of his feats are on the level of SS busting.

Kid Buu is nowhere near galaxy busting. He was only described as such in a filler scene. Aside from that none of his feats, abilities, or statements about him chalk him at even SS busting level, let alone galaxy busting.

SSJ3 Goku is nowhere near galaxy busting. Don't be absurd. He isn't even SS busting. And no, being 4 times stronger than a star buster(SSJ2 level beings) doesn't make him a SS buster as a star takes up 1/50th of a SS.

Bills is nowhere near multi-galaxy busting. Whis claimed he could wipe out the entire SS instantly if he wanted. But he has no feats or claims that would but him anywhere near multi-galaxy busting. Let alone Galaxy busting.

SSG Goku-Whis are SS busters. That's it.

The wank is strong with you.
Reply
:iconkareemmohammad:
KareemMohammad Featured By Owner Aug 20, 2014
Solar Kamehameha wants to talk with you...
Reply
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner Aug 22, 2014
You mean the Kamehameha that never busted a SS while being shot by a guy who, even with power scaling, have nothing to put him on SS busting level?
Reply
:icongamingrealitytech:
Gamingrealitytech Featured By Owner Aug 6, 2014  Student Digital Artist
ur a stupid fool lol
Reply
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner Aug 6, 2014
So because you can't refute what I said, you call me a "stupid fool"? You being incapable of making a half decent argument and instead resorting to insults doesn't make ME the "stupid fool". It makes you the immature fanboy who is gets pissy whenever his views are challenged and refuted.
Reply
(1 Reply)
:icondreadent:
Dreadent Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2014
Well, Consider Bills isn't really canon. Also, I have heard from many, many, many sources that Bills was the weakest god. I mean, he's pretty childish and has to have an adviser. And there is a destruction god for every universe. That has been stated at least once in the movie. Plus, adding Cells power linearly and applying it to real world joule outputs, Cell could destroy the solar system. Goku fully calculated at FPSSJ, he could probably lift around 600 million tons, not even applying ki to that. Since ki works different than normal strength, the results would be much more devastating. I'm pretty sure Cell could destroy a star, and the energy required for that is about the same energy required to destroy the solar system itself. And Cell was much stronger than FPSSJ Goku. If Whis was an adviser, it make sense if there were gods stronger than him, but that is just speculation.
Reply
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2014
Bills is canon. How you can figure he isn't is beyond me. The movie was created by AT. And I doubt any of your sources were official.

The energy required to bust a Solar System is far larger than the energy needed to bust a star, as a Solar system is much bigger than a star. Cell only has a claim to go by. Bills is actually credible considering it was his master than stated it, and Bills is second only to Whiss in canon.
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:icondreadent:
Dreadent Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2014
Only Semi-Canon. Being created by AT is one thing. It would have to be in the manga to be fully canon. The energy released in a supernova like our star is around a yottaton. That is enough to engulf the entire solar system past the Kuiper belt. Considering Bills is easily thousands of times stronger than Cell, it seems to apply linearly. How does that make Bills credible? Its still a claim. Both Bills and Whis said wacky shit and both contradicted themselves. Although Bills said he didn't see how Goku was weaker than Freeza, Bills doesn't use normal ki, or knows how to sense it. He also seemed to imply ki isn't something he used at all, even though King Kai said otherwise. AT never plugged in formulas or came up with specifics of who can bust what. It became inconsistent at Buu saga. Also, AT didn't actually create the movie. He only edited it. The Kaioshin created parts of the universe, yet were easily killed by Buu, who had a counterpart that was many times stronger than him. Since Vegetto could easily kill Buuhan, you'd think Vegetto would be all-powerful, Yet it seemed to imply if Goku and Vegeta fused, who were stronger than they were in Buu saga, they would still lose to Bills. Only Buuhan would be the strongest villain in canon because he is written in the manga. Bills and Whis are not.
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:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2014
Cell makes a claim, and his feats do not support it. He is a multi planet buster, not a Solar system buster. Bills didn't make any claim. Whis made a statement. Considering the fact that Bills also casually stomped several multi planet busters with little to no effort whatsoever; it actually makes him sound credible.

The movie doesn't have to be a manga in order to be canon. It just has to be written by AT. He is making major continuations in animation now. For example: "Yo Son Goku and friends return!" is completely canon despite not being in the manga due to AT writing the full story. Minor additions to Dragonball Kai? All made by AT, making them canon. There is no such thing as "semi canon". It is either canon or not, and Battle of the gods is canon. He wrote the story. And Bills doesn't use normal ki because he uses God Ki. It was never stated in the film that they couldn't sense normal ki either. So no, they didn't contradict themselves. And King Kai has his own opinion on the matter, but he is a god of creation, not destruction. Bills would know more on the subject than King Kai. And it really didn't become inconsistent, at all, in the Buu saga so I have no idea what you're talking about.

At did create the movie. He wrote the story and the new characters. If you are going to spout bull then at least try to make it sound convincing. And provide sources. The kaioshin are gods of creation. Just because you can create something on a massive scale doesn't mean you can destroy it. If that were true then a white mage would be the deadliest class to exist in rpg's. The kais can obviously create things on a greater scale than they can destroy it.

AT Wrote the script for Battle of the Gods, making the events canon. Deal with it. Again, if you are going to spout false information at least come up with something better. Here is an interview with AT: www.kanzenshuu.com/translation…

Quote: "The rough script I read in order to check it over had an interesting-sounding theme of a God of Destruction, but the contents were a little dark, so while I was in the midst of giving advice on how to improve it, I got carried away and ended up writing almost everything." He wrote the story, making it canon.

Quote: "The God of Destruction I [initially] received was a malevolent, dark character. For a twisted guy like me, I took the stereotypical image you’d think of from the name “God of Destruction”, then went ahead and reversed everything, leaving only his fearsomeness. My style is to first tear down the image, then think up the contents. Also, there was a request to have the whole cast appear since it was the first animation in a while, so that’s how the contents came about."

He wrote the character of Bills and changed the initial design for him. Even using his cat as a design motiff for him.

He also came up with the design of SSG and how it could be unlocked.

As long as the creator writes it, it is canon. That is a fact, not an opinion.
Reply
:icondreadent:
Dreadent Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2014
But by manga standards, to be written in the manga is to be canon. With that logic, I could say Kuriza is canon. AT also made sketches for GT, but does that make it canon? He mainly edited the story. If he had his way, SSG would've looked completely different, but he didn't, because he wasn't directing it. I know he uses God ki. But they are two different things. "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" Isn't even canon at all, nor have I seen any claims it was. It was based on a concept made by Toriyama, but so was GT. Doesn't make either of them canon. Editing the story and making characters isn't making the movie. He HELPED with it. There is a difference. SSJ3 tier power could be felt from Otherworld. If the power has a direct influence like that, how the hell could the actual power itself barely reach the Kuiper belt?  Freeza would technically be a multi planet buster. Freeza only has to use a fraction of his power to bust a planet in his sealed form. His full power is over 200 times greater than in his sealed form. Freeza was easily tanked by a untrained SSJ. FPSSJ is stronger than normal SSJ. How much is debatable, but Cell could tank a FPSSJ in his Full power. Bills is pretty much a spoiled child who slept for decades. King Kai is learning things all of the time. Just because he is higher in power doesn't mean he knows more. If Cell could tank a star, then that would destroy the solar system. Your logic is the reason why fanboys think Bardock was the first SSJ. If AT had some relation to the movie/game/arc/etc, even if it is minuscule, it suddenly makes it canon. SPC didn't have any feats, except for bitchslapping a SSJ2, who tanked 7 Cell Jrs, which flung around Trained SSJs easily. I may have not provided sources, but I don't anywhere where it says AT created "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" Toriyama himself today is a weaker source than him decades ago because he can't even remember his own characters and contradicts what he established in the manga on a daily basis.
Reply
:iconcodiy:
Codiy Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2014
There is no manga standards. There is canon and non-canon. The writer holds full authority where canon goes. Whether it is animated or on the manga. THE WRITER takes precedence. For that reason, and that reason alone, it is canon. Everyone knows this. That is a fact and you need to deal with that fact. At made sketches for GT, but didn't write the story like he did for Battle of the gods. And no, according to your logic, Kuriza would be canon because it is written on the manga. And did you even bother reading the quote? Or the interview? He stated he rewrote the entire story. AT wrote the script for "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!". It isn't debated because everyone with a lick of common sense knows it is canon. It was an anniversary special. It is canon because he wrote the story. Just like Battle of the gods. You making a comparison between GT and Battle of the gods and the special is a piss poor attempt at making an argument. The only sketch AT made was SSJ4. Aside from that he had nothing to do with it. Especially with the script. The story was not done by him but by others. THAT is why it is non-canon. He wrote the story for the special and for Battle of the gods, making them both canon. Read the interview before making a reply. He rewrote their draft, he wrote the story, and the characters. He STATES this. He didn't edit it, he REWROTE THE ENTIRE STORY. You are literally now arguing with what AT said in the interview.

"SSJ3 tier power could be felt from Otherworld. If the power has a direct influence like that, how the hell could the actual power itself barely reach the Kuiper belt?"
The only one who sensed his power was King Kai. Aside from fillers, Goku did not have much of an effect on the otherworld.

 "Freeza would technically be a multi planet buster."
Never argued otherwise so you bringing this up is pointless.

"Freeza only has to use a fraction of his power to bust a planet in his sealed form. His full power is over 200 times greater than in his sealed form. Freeza was easily tanked by a untrained SSJ. FPSSJ is stronger than normal SSJ. How much is debatable, but Cell could tank a FPSSJ in his Full power."
Which clocked them at mass multi planet busting power. But a Star is still harder to bust than that.

 "Bills is pretty much a spoiled child who slept for decades."
Agreed

 "King Kai is learning things all of the time."
Never once stated or shown to be true.

 "Just because he is higher in power doesn't mean he knows more."
They are both equal in terms of ranks go. But when it comes to using HIS OWN POWER. Bills would know more.

"If Cell could tank a star,"
He couldn't but okay. Hell a multi planet buster outright blew up the upper half of his body.

"then that would destroy the solar system."
The stars destruction would yes. But when one says "Solar system" busting, then that means unleash enough energy to blanket the entire solar system and destroy everything at the same time before the star gets a chance to.

 "Your logic is the reason why fanboys think Bardock was the first SSJ."
AT never had anything to do with that special, which makes it non canon. This isn't a hard thing to grasp so you having so much trouble differentiating what is canon and what isn't is baffling as it is an incredibly simple concept to understand.

" If AT had some relation to the movie/game/arc/etc, even if it is minuscule, it suddenly makes it canon."
No it doesn't. What makes something canon is only if he, you know, writes the story and the characters. He doesn't do that for the games(with the exception of Dragonball Online where he, again, wrote the main plot for the game, and the lore), fillers, and every movie that came out before Battle of the gods.

 "SPC didn't have any feats, except for bitchslapping a SSJ2,"
He never did. One of his blasts damaged SSJ2 Gohan who was trying to save Trunks while at the same time underestimating Cell.

" who tanked 7 Cell Jrs,"
Who weren't even close to being on par with Perfect Cell

 "which flung around Trained SSJs easily."
One still being heavily weakened from his fight with Cell and the other two not being nearly as strong.

 "I may have not provided sources,"
That is because every official source refutes every single thing you say on this matter.

"but I don't anywhere where it says AT created "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!""
The truth hurts obviously.

 "Toriyama himself today is a weaker source than him decades ago because he can't even remember his own characters and contradicts what he established in the manga on a daily basis."
You are now saying that you are of a higher source than AT. What he was before and now is irrelevant. He is still the same person and his word is law when it comes to his series. And he obviously has no trouble remembering his own characters, where you get this from idk, and he has yet to contradict much of anything established in the manga. So again you are spouting nonsense.
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(1 Reply)
:icons0ng0han:
S0NG0HAN Featured By Owner May 22, 2014  Student Digital Artist
Actually Manikdx and Cisla are wrong...
He said Beerus is a 10 Godku is a 7 and Whis is a 15, learn your facts b4 talk.
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:icongamingrealitytech:
Gamingrealitytech Featured By Owner May 18, 2014  Student Digital Artist
I'd say Whis/Bills are stronger than Rigor SSJ5 - Omega Shenron - CAN TAKE OUT SSJ4 GOKU/VEGETA; is hugely inferior to Whis/Bills.

Bills used 70% to defeat Goku SSJGOD; who is much stronger than SSJ4. I'd say Bills 100% can take out SSJ5 Goku/SSJ4ASCENDED.

Whis is a lot stronget than bills - Whis can take out SSJ5 Goku/Vegeta with a few hits; Whis is stronger than rigor  no offence
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:iconmanikdx2000:
Manikdx2000 Featured By Owner Apr 2, 2014  Student Digital Artist
Akira Torryama said that if he did numbers Beerus is 10, Godku is 60 and Beerus is 10 so Whis is only 1.5x Beerus.
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:iconcislahet:
CislaHet Featured By Owner Apr 18, 2014
Nah he said Beerus is 10, Godku is 6 and Whis is 15.
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:iconmalikstudios:
MalikStudios Featured By Owner Apr 2, 2014  Professional General Artist
I know, Whis should be 105 trillion, but I did these numbers before the announcement, so they haven't been adjusted
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:icongeminice:
Geminice Featured By Owner Apr 1, 2014
Great work. I like this
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